Jay Gatsby was trying to grasp the sparkling, yet elusive American Dream. To achieve this, he allegedly engaged in some shady activities. In your opinion, was the Italian philosopher/writer Machiavelli correct in his assertion that "the end justifies the means"? (in simpler terms, it doesn't matter how you get it as long as you get it) Explain.
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ReplyDeleteI disagree with Machiavelli's statement: "The end justifies the means" because Gatsby's whole life was fabricated and he was always looking over his shoulder to make sure he wouldn't get caught. Really, he was just hurting himself by taking a shortcut and in turn he was miserable. I understand why he did it, but that doesn't make it right.
ReplyDelete-Lindsey Tonnesen
I disagree because I believe that history comes back to haunt you. Even though Gatsby was rich, people still wondered how he got the money and started making rumors. Gatsby didn't realize that wealth was not only money, but a title as well. He had the money but not title. Tom did some research on him and came to the conclusion that he was not as good as he claimed to be. Since Gatsby didn't get his money is honorable ways, he didn't get what he wanted (Daisy). People wouldn't even go to his funeral because they didn't want to be associated with him since he got wealthy in dishonorable ways. So the end does not justify the means.
ReplyDeleteThe end doesn't justify the means, simply because when Machiavelli said that, it meant that in the beginning you do some wrong doings, little, maybe even minor things, in order to get a step ahead, and then you proceed with the steps in the right manner. But this guy Gatsby here, did not follow through apparently. As Maryam said, he got his money and his fortune in all the wrong ways. He could put out to the world that he was rich, (with his amazing parties and outside appearance) but he did not have any type of title or information to back it up. When people came to the conclusion that he was faking it, no one was going to show up to that man's funeral, who would want to be associated with that? Like seriously, bootleg liquor? Am I right, he was the one selling the liquor right? Well, besides that, he was never rich, and he always wanted to be rich and have the nice stuff, but as far as I'm concerned, during those times, and even now, its hard to move from one social class to another. He found a way, but it still didn't help him in the end, because everyone found out, ANDDDDD, he still doesn't have Daisy, which he couldn't have gotten anytime soon because she knew about him too. She's a little messed up in the head too, I would watch out for her. But besides that, the guy messed up his life by being ridiculous.
ReplyDelete- It's DeYauna by the way, in case it does not show up in the name tag thing there!
To my opinion, I disagree with Machiavelli's assertion that, "the end justifies the means." It certainly does matter how you get something and not just the fact that you get it. It is not weighted the same to achieve something or someone honestly and striving to achieving with a fable and a easy way through the path to the end results. In Gatsby's case, although he did everything he did to achieve the love of Daisy in a honest heart his actions to the society were not and he did everything and still at the end did not get what he wanted. Is it worth decieving and cheating your way through to get what you want and still risking all to not even getting it? Although many do this and still achieve what they want it does not always last. Is it worth getting carried in something that is not worth it? Gatsby should of thought of that before ruining his life.
ReplyDeleteI agree because no matter how jay gatsby got his money he still had the money he earned. Even though gatsby got his money in shady activities he did wrong for the right reasons; to try to get daisy.
ReplyDelete-Taylor Stephen
I do not agree with Machiavelli's statement that the end justifies the means. This is because of the fact that Gatsbys actions have, in this case, cause him to always have to be sneaky. This in it self shows the his methods of attaining his fortune were not right and that they are not justified just because he needs the power to get daisy
ReplyDeleteYa that one above ^^^ was from me Brandon Day lol
ReplyDeleteI believe Machiavelli is correct in his assertion because money is money. No matter how you get it, it's still money. Different people are critisized on how they go about getting it, such as Gatsby.
ReplyDeleteMachiavelli is incorrect in his assertion that, "the end justifies the means." One should never break moral and ethical principles in order to achieve a goal. In doing this one could very possibly destroy themselves and even lose sight of what their original motives were. This is seen in Gatsby as he flaunts his wealth around to everyone and even somewhat realizes that Daisy was not all that he remembered her to be. Ultimately this philosophy is an indirect factor in Gatsby's demise. -Matthew Greene
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, Machiavelli's assertion is correct. Even though Jay Gatsby was rewarded with his money from activities that were not morally right, he did what he did for something he loved. If it wasn't for his love for Daisy, he most likely would not have broken moral ideals.
ReplyDelete-Lauren Dyal
I personally agree with the statement, "The end justifies the means", because even though Gatsby might have done some things that he wasn't too proud of to achieve where he is in life, he is still content due to the fact that he did it all for the woman he loved, Daisy. He set his goals from the time he met her and they all revolved around her. For example, he sold liquor, had the parties, and purchased all the clothes just to appeal to Daisy. Even though his actions were not the most positive ones, he was following his heart and making decisions solely to gain what he wanted, based on his affection.
ReplyDelete- Alicia Wilson (:
In this case, I agree with Machiavelli's statement. Although Gatsby did shady things to acquire his fortune, he didn't do it with malevolent intentions, he did it to win over Daisy. If he had used immoral methods to make money just to be rich, then I wouldn't agree, but he had a good goal. Unfortunately for him, the way he made his money was the reason he lost Daisy.
ReplyDelete- Krystal Midcap
In relation to Jay Gatsby's actions, Machiavelli's statement holds true. In the mind of Gatsby, Daisy was all he had left. His mentor had died, and his father being estranged from him, he was alone. In his own 'shady method' he believes he can become good enough in Daisy's eyes, and he truly loved her, for she was his love during the war and the only person he thought he truly knew. To that end, even though he later learned she did not return the love he had hoped for and once felt from her five years ago, despite the illegal measures he had to take to gain his wealth, he did it all with only her in mind. Gatsby was the epitome of determination and devotion. He did not have cruel or hateful intentions, only his love. It is for that reason that his actions are justified.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Machiavelli & everybody else that agrees. It doesnt matter what way you get something as long as you get it. Gatsby did do shady things to get what he wanted but he had to earn it. It wasnt like it was just handed to him, he worked for it. His intentions were good, to win Daisy.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Machiavelli. Sure he works hard even though the actions are somewhat shady, but it's not necessarily gaining the American dream. He cheated the American dream, not gained it, and he did it all just to obtain Daisy's love. This comes to show women can make you do stupid things. That's some pretty smurfed up stuff! Lake Weir!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteThi can be looked at both ways actually, In one perspective the end does justify the means. For example your kids are starving your only option is to steal something, your kids are still alive so its worth it do do something wrong to get something right to that extent Especially if the person doing these ungodly things to people has no remorse and no super ego to guide them from right or wrong or to make them feel bad about doing what they did so they feel good about gaining riches by doing wrong its an easier route. So to them they are very satisfied and to them the end deffinately justifies the means and I cant dissagree with them on that if its working for them...though its not my personal choice to get things that way.It is frowned upon but you cant argue that your not getting what want or need still even if its in a bad way your still getting it and your still being justified.
ReplyDeleteHowever you can look it the other way, If the person has moral values it wont be as grand doing something hurtful to another to gain fortune because there will always be that little voice in their head eating them alive if they have any type of conscious or moral values at all, yea they will still have what they want and need, but they wont have a clean conscious and they wont be as happy as they could be. So their not as justified because happiness in my opinion is much bettert than riches.
So I soppose it all depends on the situation that i would agree or dissagree with machiavellis quote, all depends on what type of people are commiting the acts to get what they want or need and the circumstances of why they are trying to do so.
The end does justify the means. Who knows if or how many people Gatsby hurt getting his fortune, but he did it with the best intentions. Love was his end regardless of the means. "Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions". - Alex Colling
ReplyDeleteI think that the end justifies the means. There are certain circumstances that will require you to do something that isn't considered morally right, but if your goal and intentions are pure, then nothing should stop you from doing what you want to do. It just comes down to the question, "Is the juice worth the squeeze?". Are you willing to make sacrifices for a better situation later on in life? Personally, I will be a success regardless of what I have to do in order to reach my goals. - Charles Jordan
ReplyDeleteWait! Not Charles...Barack. - Barack Jordan
ReplyDeletei believe the ends do justify the means. the fact that gatsby risked everythimg to be with the girl of his dreams, who, in reality, never really love him at all. His ends absolutely justified his means he risked it all and lossed it all. i agree with Charles Jordans quote. -Brandon Bernard
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